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sabinetzinThis story is not very long, but it took me a very long time to write, and so I wanted to write about that. You should note that this entry contains spoilers for Nice Place to Visit as well as the present story, and some personal stuff that might be TMI.
This story got started because of Nice Place to Visit. There's a scene, towards the end, where John and Rodney are negotiating the terms of their D/s relationship. Here is part of the scene in question:
John's brow furrowed. "First thing? I'm not calling you 'sir.' That's for work."
Rodney looked offended. "I didn't get two doctorates to be called 'sir,' thank you very much." He gave John a look that suggested he might start laughing before he even finished his next sentence. "How do you feel about 'daddy'?"
John rolled his eyes. "Rodney, if I wanted a daddy, I'd have asked Caldwell."
"You know, it's the damnedest thing," Rodney marveled. "I can't decide if that sentence was really hot or the most traumatizing statement I've ever heard."
"I was just thinking the same thing," he said. "Isn't it weird?"
After they'd finished cackling over the idea, Rodney cleared his throat.
And in context, I like the scene, because it makes a lot of sense for the characters, and does a lot to set the groundwork for the type of relatively informal relationship they have.
But then I started thinking about it out of context. I see these discussions recurring about what's out of bounds, what kinds of things even kinky people see as fair game for ridicule, why that's a bad thing. And I started to feel bad for being part of that, for giving these characters the same kind of prejudices that I don't like to see in other people.
So I started thinking about doing an ageplay story- more specifically, an ageplay story with daddy kink- sort of as a self-chastisement/chance to broaden my horizons. From the start, it was always going to be John's kink from Rodney's point of view, because there's no way I could write it the other way around.
I don't get incest roleplay. I kind of understand and even like certain types of ageplay- particularly schoolgirl kink- but certainly not all of them. I don't understand what somebody could see in pretending to be a child, especially the child of their partner. Part of it is because I'm not into roleplay in general IRL; I can sort of understand what's hot about pretending your partner is someone else, but it's not something I want to do- I just didn't sign up for it, y'know?
The other half of it is that, while I don't see what's appealing about incest roleplay, I do see all the things that are unappealing about it. Being an unattached young female sub, I get a lot of (unsolicited) offers from older men who want to be my daddy, and I feel insulted every time. I'm not that kind of girl, and fuck anybody who assumes I am just because of who I am. I can't call somebody Daddy; I still call my father that. I'm only twenty-four; I'm clinging to adulthood as it is, and someone treating me like a child makes me feel like I've failed in some fundamental way.
So, for this story, the challenge was to try and find some way to make this kink work for me. What could I do to it to make it not squicky? What could someone possibly see in it that I just don't see?
Somewhere in the middle of all of this, I struck upon the title. It's kind of a dog whistle; I'm childfree, and one of the things that gets brought up over and over again in discussions of awful things that people say to you is the frequently heard statement, "It's different when they're your own," meaning that you'll somehow magically learn to tolerate kids if you have some.
Originally, I thought the title was just too funny to throw out; but the more the fic coalesced, the more it coalesced around the title. In this fic, Rodney goes through the same kind of process that I went through in writing it; he goes through the same kind of problems, but in the end, it really is different than he expects- all he has to be is himself, and all he has to do is take care of John, and he's already willing to do that.
There's other things that went into it. I'm particularly interested in the notion of kink as a stop-gap. Yeah, you've got issues*, yeah, you need therapy, but right now, you need something to get you enough relief to get you to the point of getting help. In the original version, which persisted until almost the end, this is even more of a theme- instead John having to kill a young boy, the great trauma was that some villagers sacrificed someone on John's behalf, and John had even more of a Heroic BSOD than in the final version (in the end, it really derailed the central themes of the story).
So that's pretty much what it took. It was a long process, but I'm really happy with the final result, so I think it was worth it.
*Not saying this is true of all kinksters, but boy howdy, is it true for some of us.
This story got started because of Nice Place to Visit. There's a scene, towards the end, where John and Rodney are negotiating the terms of their D/s relationship. Here is part of the scene in question:
John's brow furrowed. "First thing? I'm not calling you 'sir.' That's for work."
Rodney looked offended. "I didn't get two doctorates to be called 'sir,' thank you very much." He gave John a look that suggested he might start laughing before he even finished his next sentence. "How do you feel about 'daddy'?"
John rolled his eyes. "Rodney, if I wanted a daddy, I'd have asked Caldwell."
"You know, it's the damnedest thing," Rodney marveled. "I can't decide if that sentence was really hot or the most traumatizing statement I've ever heard."
"I was just thinking the same thing," he said. "Isn't it weird?"
After they'd finished cackling over the idea, Rodney cleared his throat.
And in context, I like the scene, because it makes a lot of sense for the characters, and does a lot to set the groundwork for the type of relatively informal relationship they have.
But then I started thinking about it out of context. I see these discussions recurring about what's out of bounds, what kinds of things even kinky people see as fair game for ridicule, why that's a bad thing. And I started to feel bad for being part of that, for giving these characters the same kind of prejudices that I don't like to see in other people.
So I started thinking about doing an ageplay story- more specifically, an ageplay story with daddy kink- sort of as a self-chastisement/chance to broaden my horizons. From the start, it was always going to be John's kink from Rodney's point of view, because there's no way I could write it the other way around.
I don't get incest roleplay. I kind of understand and even like certain types of ageplay- particularly schoolgirl kink- but certainly not all of them. I don't understand what somebody could see in pretending to be a child, especially the child of their partner. Part of it is because I'm not into roleplay in general IRL; I can sort of understand what's hot about pretending your partner is someone else, but it's not something I want to do- I just didn't sign up for it, y'know?
The other half of it is that, while I don't see what's appealing about incest roleplay, I do see all the things that are unappealing about it. Being an unattached young female sub, I get a lot of (unsolicited) offers from older men who want to be my daddy, and I feel insulted every time. I'm not that kind of girl, and fuck anybody who assumes I am just because of who I am. I can't call somebody Daddy; I still call my father that. I'm only twenty-four; I'm clinging to adulthood as it is, and someone treating me like a child makes me feel like I've failed in some fundamental way.
So, for this story, the challenge was to try and find some way to make this kink work for me. What could I do to it to make it not squicky? What could someone possibly see in it that I just don't see?
Somewhere in the middle of all of this, I struck upon the title. It's kind of a dog whistle; I'm childfree, and one of the things that gets brought up over and over again in discussions of awful things that people say to you is the frequently heard statement, "It's different when they're your own," meaning that you'll somehow magically learn to tolerate kids if you have some.
Originally, I thought the title was just too funny to throw out; but the more the fic coalesced, the more it coalesced around the title. In this fic, Rodney goes through the same kind of process that I went through in writing it; he goes through the same kind of problems, but in the end, it really is different than he expects- all he has to be is himself, and all he has to do is take care of John, and he's already willing to do that.
There's other things that went into it. I'm particularly interested in the notion of kink as a stop-gap. Yeah, you've got issues*, yeah, you need therapy, but right now, you need something to get you enough relief to get you to the point of getting help. In the original version, which persisted until almost the end, this is even more of a theme- instead John having to kill a young boy, the great trauma was that some villagers sacrificed someone on John's behalf, and John had even more of a Heroic BSOD than in the final version (in the end, it really derailed the central themes of the story).
So that's pretty much what it took. It was a long process, but I'm really happy with the final result, so I think it was worth it.
*Not saying this is true of all kinksters, but boy howdy, is it true for some of us.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 08:49 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 09:08 am (UTC)It's interesting to me that in slash fandom (as least the circles I'm familiar with), "Daddy" is almost always treated as part of ageplay and incest kink. Whereas in porn on Nifty and ASSM, it seems to me that "Daddy" is used to cede and to recognize Authority-- not necessarily connoting ageplay, incest or infantilizing/patronizing implications. I mean, it shows up in ageplay, age difference fantasies, incest and infantilizing/patronizing contexts too, of course, but in a number of stories it's like it's gotten generalized beyond that to represent ultimate authority regardless of the fantasy during which it's employed.
Not that Nifty or ASSM are like, reliable journalistic sources or anything-- *g*-- it's just something I noticed.
I thought your story arrowed right to the issues a lot of people seem to have with the word and what it represents in kink, and showed a more compassionate perspective. Really well done.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 02:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 09:47 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 09:55 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 09:59 pm (UTC)Well. Some men!
Reminds me of a joke from an ep of Mystery Science Theater 3000.
Black Scientist: College didn't teach me to be nice to sheriffs, but I'm trying.
Southern White Sheriff: You better be, boy!
Crow, as Black Scientist: "Good thing my name is Edward Boy."
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 10:02 pm (UTC)Dammit, now I want to watch MST3K...
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 10:04 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 10:07 pm (UTC)Though I'm not sure why, it's not like I have anywhere to be!
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 11:21 pm (UTC)(And that's on top of watching it umpty-million times from my old videotape!)
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-03 01:53 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-03 03:04 am (UTC)"Well, I'm not changing my script, Dr. Z still dies."
"I got it. It'll be really cool. They'll save the girl like you wrote it originally, but she'll go walking off into the ocean, like she's becoming a fish person too."
"We don't have the budget to do makeup for her."
"Don't need it! Plus, if we just send her into the ocean as-is, maybe we can get some shots of her with her dress wet."
"...I love this idea. Let's do it."
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-03 08:10 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 12:02 pm (UTC)(And the line it's different when they're your own...is a really annoying thing to say. I have a kid, even though I'm probably very mentally childfree. And the only thing that actually makes sense about this statement is that aside from my own, I can't stand children. And even mine, sometimes, tbh. Christ, kids are a pain in the ass. Good for you to make the childfre decision.)
I think you treated the kink well. I've read fic in which it was just a hot, name thing (Fuck your boy, daddy.) Stuff like that. And other stuff where it was more along the lines of a D/s thing with Daddy instead of Master and a very dependent relationship.
It's good, though, to think about things like this. It helps get away from kinkshaming. Even if you never want to engage yourself.
(no subject)
Date: 2010-06-02 11:00 pm (UTC)I, too, didn't take that line in Nice Place to Visit as mocking the daddy thing -- mostly because John and Rodney aren't really talking about daddy kink, but instead Caldwell. As a leather daddy. And Rodney's line makes sense to me because I've had to think about people I didn't previously view as even sexual as very sexual and possibly kinky, and it's weird and slightly arousing every time. Especially when your head tries to 'shop some ridiculous costume onto your mental image of them and it just does not work.